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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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ring ring ring ring hello

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Manor International Studios I'll Richard

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hell oh yes oh you sound terrible oh and

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you you want me to do what come on do it

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only my to read the whole okay you want

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me to you foreshow well I can be you for

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show but really I can't do that haircut

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no no one can and I split on hold and

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then we'll get into it okay yes it's the

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skeptics own podcast episode 451 for the

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3rd of March 2019 may not hear filling

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in for Richard Saunders who's been

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struck down with the flu actual

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recording from Richards house they're

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being struck down with the flu as we

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speak and of course it's I'm filling in

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for Richard I've got to give you the

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weather report it's 80 degrees Celsius

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in Adelaide parts of Victoria are on

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fire unfortunately Darwin is really

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sweaty it's raining in parts of Brisbane

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and where I am it's um it's dry in my

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underwear but apparently according to

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doctors Richard has a cold flu or

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perhaps an infection so if there's a

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doctor in the house I give him a ring

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and do some Reiki healing over the phone

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because secretly I just know he's into

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that now before rich had crawled into

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his sickbed he managed to produce this

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week's show including first up and any

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of you would susan gerbic about an

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undercover operation to catch a

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so-called psychic which was Roger

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Moore's first film to catch a so-called

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psychic fantastic that was a psychic

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getting his information from the heavens

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it seemed more likely the information

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his psychic was getting was coming from

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the cloud and I don't mean cumulonimbus

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now there's a huge story even being

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published in the New York Times and it's

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really put skepticism back on the map

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for the time being and there will be

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links in the show notes so listen to his

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interview with susan gerbic after that

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the now ailing and croaky Richard

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Saunders before his voice gave up read

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another report from the pages of the

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skeptic magazine

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from Australian skeptics this week a

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look at homeopathy and some of those

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Flyers homeopaths like to leave in

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doctor's waiting rooms I mean really I

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mean look you've got to go to university

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for longer than a week to be a doctor so

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why would you bother if you just make a

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flyer gee I mean you know how many times

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I've told be able on a doctor well look

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as I like to say I may not be a doctor

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but I do have a prescription pad stay

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tuned at the end of the show for more

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news but for now it's time for me to go

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downstairs and get my cell phone while

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you enjoy the skeptic zone

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joining me now on the line all the way

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from Salinas California its susan gerbic

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from guerrilla skepticism on wikipedia

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hello Susan

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hello Richard hello all you skeptics on

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listeners out there now a couple of

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weeks ago we had mark Edward on the show

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telling us well alluding to an upcoming

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sting project something like that and

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I've asked you to come on today because

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just in the last 24 hours as we're

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recording this the news is broken yes

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the news is broken we've got all sorts

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of operations are talking about we've

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got operation pizza roll operation Peach

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Pit we've got somebody called the seat

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belt psychic Susan we've got the New

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York Times it's going crazy can you

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please put this together for our

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listeners oh my gosh okay so yes it does

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feel like it's a lot of different

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operations it does feel like there's a

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lot going on but in essence we did I've

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been trying to catch a psychic and a hot

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read for a very long time aha Marie as

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as your listeners probably know are

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people who are trying to trying to they

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get information from from knowing

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something about you there's lots of ways

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of doing that

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so catching as a psychic and a cold read

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is pretty simple and we've done that

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many times

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so I've done many operations trying to

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catch someone the New York Times said

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that if I could catch a heart read they

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wanted to do a story on me so I've been

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trying for a long time operation bubble

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bee operation ice-cream cone and then

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we've done other things in the past and

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I've written a lot about Tyler Henry the

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Hollywood medium and he is operation

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Tater Tot tatertot tater comes up with

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all these names I do yeah yeah I have a

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lot of fun trying to come up with

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something that doesn't have already

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operation in front of it Oh

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see there's a method for my madness

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trust me mmm well I do trust you look if

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you ever bust an Australian psychic

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let's call it operation Tim camel

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Vegemite or us fine you know and I and I

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could do this in Australia there's not

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any reason why I couldn't it would just

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be a matter of finding the right psychic

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to do and sure we could do this it

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wouldn't be hard but you're really

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looking for somebody who is who's who's

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hot reading or likely too hot read so

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what happened is somebody brought

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thomas-john he's the Manhattan medium

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who happened to me in LA he spends a lot

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of time in Los Angeles and a lot of time

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in LA in Chicago and he has some a

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little bit of a following and they

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brought him to my attention I'd never

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heard of him before and I said okay I

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can do that so we put together a sting

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it took us about 10 days and listeners

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probably understand what had happened is

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that we created fake Facebook pages and

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Mark Edward and myself went to the sting

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as has been a wife dressed to be dressed

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to be cold red by the way in case he did

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not read us we paid for VIP tickets set

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up in the front and he within three

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readings he was honest and reading these

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fake Facebook pages and it should be

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real and he went through reading off the

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Facebook pages all the content on there

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but it's real important that you

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understand that mark and I did not know

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what was on those Facebook pages we were

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locked out of those accounts from the

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beginning we only knew some very simple

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things and all the details were we

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weren't purview per view - I think you

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know it says let me jump in here this is

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really important because I've seen here

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in Australia when certain psychics have

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been busted with people delivering false

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information base they will use excuses

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like oh they were reading the fact that

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there was false information or they were

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using their psychic powers to delve into

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people's mind and whatever and they

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could see this but what you've done is

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you've made sure that when you've gone

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into the the show you did not know the

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information that this psychic would miss

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seriously reveal absolutely I mean one

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of we were in Hollywood California one

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of the people who arranged those

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Facebook pages was Michelle Franklin up

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in humpty do Australia uh-huh so you

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can't get much farther than that from

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Australia so if he was you know in

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Hollywood so if he was reading

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Michelle's mind I thought that's really

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good and she gets a mentioned along with

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yourself and lots of other people in the

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New York Times article folks don't worry

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we're going to link to this article on

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this week's show notes and I encourage

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you to read it oh yes it was so much

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it's been exciting but okay going back

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to what happened I think I've talked

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about what kind of had happened I just

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wasn't able to mention Thomas John's

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name right so so we did the sting a year

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passes the New York Times reporter you

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know says well that was really good but

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you know and I said well what and he

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says I kind of need to see a beginning

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to the end sting I need to sit in on it

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from the very very very very beginning

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and follow it all the way through and

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sit in on everything I said okay I'll

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put together another sting so we found a

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psychic in Connecticut area which was

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near where the reporter was I got

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tickets we put together fake Facebook

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pages

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I contacted Kenny Biddle who is pretty

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popular in the skeptic community he's an

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ex ghost hunter who's turned skeptic and

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he writes for skeptic magazine and he

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and his wife and four friends went to a

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show in I think it was Pittsburgh

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Pennsylvania or someplace like that

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and the reporter for The New York Times

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went with them he sat behind him a few

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rows and he watched everything I had

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several Skype conversations with the

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team in the East Coast and I talked to

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them about what I wanted him to do we

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also had fake Facebook pages all

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arranged for them and I told them they

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had to stay in character the whole time

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that they were there to make as many

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friends as possible talk to the people

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at the bar everything about the dead

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people they wanted to see they were

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given almost no information just like

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you know it happened with operation

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pizza roll so they did not catch that

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psychic they were able to film it but

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they didn't get read but we were able to

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show pretty conclusively it was all cold

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reading and that psychics name was Matt

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Fraser and so that was all great

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so the psychic I mean so the reporter

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for the New York Times was all done he

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says this is great and then almost a

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year went by it takes a long time to get

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these things to happen you guys it was

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fun so then I finally yeah it's not easy

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this is a long process so then I said oh

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you know I'm gonna revisit Thomas John

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who was the first psychic from operation

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pizza roll and he had a TV show called

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seat belt psychic see I'm psychic can

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you can you give us a little overview of

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what that means what it's supposed to be

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is he's driving some kind of rideshare

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it never specific and people get in the

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back seat of the car and they drive away

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and he gives them he reads for them he

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gives a reading to them he says hey by

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the way I'm a psychic medium would you

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like to talk to your dead family members

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I see her dad's right there with you and

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then they get all excited and it's

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filmed and all that and I thought okay

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so Richard you and I've been doing this

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for a long time we know kind of a tells

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so I'm watching this show and I'm gonna

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write up an article for skeptical

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Inquirer that was my whole premise is to

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sit down and watch all these episodes

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and write this write this up most

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psychics are called readers they you

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know just banter and and wordplay you

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know well in this case it was

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good I mean he was accurate and I could

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not figure out what was going on but I

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was suspicious

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several things you're absolutely right

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and let me just jump in here again it's

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one of the tells and I've seen it here

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on TV many times and maybe one day

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operation Vegemite or Tim Tam will

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00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:00,230
Center on a certain psychic I've seen

272
00:12:07,930 --> 00:12:04,210
many times where the tell for us is

273
00:12:10,210 --> 00:12:07,940
accurate information often and and

274
00:12:12,430 --> 00:12:10,220
without using the standard cold reading

275
00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:12,440
techniques to weasel out information its

276
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:14,510
yeah to you and me and people in the

277
00:12:18,190 --> 00:12:16,730
know it's a pretty big tell ya it is

278
00:12:19,900 --> 00:12:18,200
telling and you know what you're really

279
00:12:21,460 --> 00:12:19,910
selling me on this idea of operation

280
00:12:23,980 --> 00:12:21,470
Vegemite and Tim Tam yeah we're gonna

281
00:12:25,660 --> 00:12:23,990
have to do something so we'll talk okay

282
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:25,670
I'm sure I'll mention a name to you

283
00:12:28,930 --> 00:12:27,170
after the interview don't worry okay so

284
00:12:30,610 --> 00:12:28,940
I have a feeling that you've got people

285
00:12:33,340 --> 00:12:30,620
in the audience right now who are like I

286
00:12:35,620 --> 00:12:33,350
want to do this I want to go please and

287
00:12:37,780 --> 00:12:35,630
maybe and okay so when we're ready we'll

288
00:12:40,780 --> 00:12:37,790
we'll invite people to join us okay

289
00:12:43,750 --> 00:12:40,790
anyway so what happened in seatbelt

290
00:12:46,270 --> 00:12:43,760
psychic the other tells were you know

291
00:12:48,670 --> 00:12:46,280
I've been in an uber I've been in a you

292
00:12:51,490 --> 00:12:48,680
know these these ride share cars before

293
00:12:53,850 --> 00:12:51,500
and what happens is these people get

294
00:12:58,510 --> 00:12:53,860
into the backseat of this very spacious

295
00:13:02,430 --> 00:12:58,520
nice-looking leather seat bench seat car

296
00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:02,440
and they sit down in the back seat and

297
00:13:06,340 --> 00:13:04,910
there's at least six cameras on them

298
00:13:08,020 --> 00:13:06,350
because you can see the camera angles

299
00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:08,030
and I thought why aren't they reacting

300
00:13:12,490 --> 00:13:09,440
to the cameras that are pointed right at

301
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:12,500
them okay that's that's kind of like hmm

302
00:13:16,330 --> 00:13:14,210
maybe they're really small cameras I

303
00:13:18,820 --> 00:13:16,340
don't know any but the quality is really

304
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:18,830
good I thought that's okay all right and

305
00:13:22,510 --> 00:13:20,570
then when they get into the seat they

306
00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:22,520
sit if there's two people in the car

307
00:13:28,300 --> 00:13:26,090
they sit not like a normal person would

308
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:28,310
sit one side of the backseat and the

309
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:29,690
other side of the backseat near the

310
00:13:33,790 --> 00:13:31,010
windows next to the doors

311
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:33,800
no they sat with one person sitting in

312
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:35,810
the middle seat and the other person

313
00:13:40,450 --> 00:13:37,250
sitting in the door that they came in

314
00:13:42,580 --> 00:13:40,460
and they weren't necessarily couples you

315
00:13:46,990 --> 00:13:42,590
know cozying up to each other it was

316
00:13:48,220 --> 00:13:47,000
people who were friends apparently and I

317
00:13:51,220 --> 00:13:48,230
thought why are they sitting like that

318
00:13:51,470 --> 00:13:51,230
and I realized that you can see that you

319
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:51,480
can

320
00:13:54,650 --> 00:13:52,890
see them better on the camera if one

321
00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:54,660
person's in the middle and I thought

322
00:14:00,410 --> 00:13:57,360
that was odd and then I noticed that

323
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:00,420
there was no destination ever given so

324
00:14:03,890 --> 00:14:02,250
you know they'd sit down in the car they

325
00:14:06,230 --> 00:14:03,900
put their seatbelt on and then they

326
00:14:07,790 --> 00:14:06,240
would pull away from the car and he

327
00:14:10,370 --> 00:14:07,800
would say hi to them and they'd say hi

328
00:14:12,050 --> 00:14:10,380
back and then he'd say you know how's

329
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:12,060
her day and they'd say oh it's really

330
00:14:16,610 --> 00:14:15,120
good and then he would say so I speak to

331
00:14:18,740 --> 00:14:16,620
the dead would you like a reading you

332
00:14:20,390 --> 00:14:18,750
know something like that and they you

333
00:14:23,570 --> 00:14:20,400
know get shocked and they go really oh

334
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:23,580
yeah I'm into psychics and so I thought

335
00:14:28,940 --> 00:14:26,370
well when is where is he driving them to

336
00:14:31,070 --> 00:14:28,950
he's not confirmed anything about a

337
00:14:35,420 --> 00:14:31,080
destination he's not putting any

338
00:14:37,730 --> 00:14:35,430
information on the you know in anything

339
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:37,740
there's no iPad or anything that you can

340
00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:40,050
see he's not there did he just drives

341
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:43,040
away and I thought that was strange and

342
00:14:49,340 --> 00:14:46,560
also there's no logos or anything on any

343
00:14:51,860 --> 00:14:49,350
of the clothing and Richard you know I

344
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:51,870
know I know all about that

345
00:14:59,090 --> 00:14:56,010
whenever I'm I'm asked to do a TV shoot

346
00:15:00,740 --> 00:14:59,100
an advertising a corporate video of a TV

347
00:15:03,530 --> 00:15:00,750
show whatever the case may be the strict

348
00:15:06,380 --> 00:15:03,540
instruction is no logos no strut no

349
00:15:09,980 --> 00:15:06,390
stripes you know for strobing reasons on

350
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:09,990
camera but no logos yeah there wasn't a

351
00:15:17,090 --> 00:15:13,410
single hat with a baseball team on it

352
00:15:19,850 --> 00:15:17,100
nothing and no no Nike swishes or adidas

353
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:19,860
or and that just wasn't normal and the

354
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:22,110
people just looked a little too polished

355
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:24,090
they look like they were everyday

356
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:28,410
clothing sort of and but you know their

357
00:15:32,710 --> 00:15:30,000
nails were done really well their hair

358
00:15:36,380 --> 00:15:32,720
was done the makeup was done I thought

359
00:15:38,660 --> 00:15:36,390
anyway so the the main thing was that

360
00:15:42,140 --> 00:15:38,670
happened is that the psychic asked this

361
00:15:44,990 --> 00:15:42,150
one woman to give him something to hold

362
00:15:48,170 --> 00:15:45,000
and he handed her she handed him her

363
00:15:50,540 --> 00:15:48,180
name tag from work ha ha ha lanyard and

364
00:15:52,220 --> 00:15:50,550
he took it and he held it in his hand

365
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:52,230
without looking at it and put it right

366
00:15:57,170 --> 00:15:54,570
at the TV I mean he right at the camera

367
00:16:00,200 --> 00:15:57,180
I'm sure he didn't mean to point it at

368
00:16:01,870 --> 00:16:00,210
the camera but I was able to pause long

369
00:16:03,860 --> 00:16:01,880
enough to see the woman's name and

370
00:16:05,690 --> 00:16:03,870
within about a minute

371
00:16:08,650 --> 00:16:05,700
I was on her Facebook page which was

372
00:16:11,950 --> 00:16:08,660
totally open Wendy Westmoreland and

373
00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:11,960
there I found she is an actress and

374
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:15,510
she's you know had all these actress and

375
00:16:21,190 --> 00:16:18,090
actor friends and they do part-time

376
00:16:25,790 --> 00:16:21,200
acting and I was able to match him up in

377
00:16:27,650 --> 00:16:25,800
a lot of ways on IMDB and so on and then

378
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:27,660
we realized when I was looking at the

379
00:16:33,140 --> 00:16:29,370
very end credits I I noticed that

380
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:33,150
there's a casting team on his show so

381
00:16:39,220 --> 00:16:35,370
what you're saying is is that this is a

382
00:16:42,380 --> 00:16:39,230
show which seems to be populated with

383
00:16:45,890 --> 00:16:42,390
actors and actresses this is produced

384
00:16:47,780 --> 00:16:45,900
for purely entertainment or is it trying

385
00:16:50,540 --> 00:16:47,790
to convince the audience that this guy

386
00:16:52,570 --> 00:16:50,550
is a real psychic getting psychic

387
00:16:54,860 --> 00:16:52,580
messages absolutely there's no

388
00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:54,870
disclaimers saying the entertainment

389
00:16:58,610 --> 00:16:56,970
only it is and I've got lots of

390
00:17:01,670 --> 00:16:58,620
screenshots they might try to add that

391
00:17:03,470 --> 00:17:01,680
now but there wasn't then and no it's

392
00:17:06,199 --> 00:17:03,480
definitely I'm speaking to the dead and

393
00:17:08,990 --> 00:17:06,209
then if you read the comments from the

394
00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:09,000
people as they get you know posted on

395
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:12,569
YouTube these people are definitely like

396
00:17:15,949 --> 00:17:14,490
oh no I want a reading from him he I

397
00:17:18,590 --> 00:17:15,959
need to talk to me rather I need use

398
00:17:20,510 --> 00:17:18,600
this yeah one of the the Wendy

399
00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:20,520
Westmoreland was very interesting

400
00:17:25,340 --> 00:17:23,310
because her Facebook page had a picture

401
00:17:27,439 --> 00:17:25,350
of her brother who had died years ago

402
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:27,449
and she posted the picture on her

403
00:17:33,020 --> 00:17:29,810
Facebook page months before she did this

404
00:17:35,690 --> 00:17:33,030
taping for the show yeah and interesting

405
00:17:38,540 --> 00:17:35,700
enough he got that that brother with his

406
00:17:41,450 --> 00:17:38,550
name but I include on the article that I

407
00:17:45,620 --> 00:17:41,460
wrote called buckle up seatbelt psychic

408
00:17:47,470 --> 00:17:45,630
I included that screenshot so people can

409
00:17:51,740 --> 00:17:47,480
see that all the screenshots are are

410
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:51,750
available so anyway the article I sent

411
00:17:56,090 --> 00:17:53,760
that to the reporter for the New York

412
00:17:58,190 --> 00:17:56,100
Times I said you know what you guys this

413
00:18:00,080 --> 00:17:58,200
has been two years almost and if you're

414
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:00,090
not going to publish anything I'm gonna

415
00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:02,490
publish this and he goes wait wait wait

416
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:04,320
wait and he went to his editor and the

417
00:18:10,340 --> 00:18:06,690
editors came back oh my gosh you know

418
00:18:13,010 --> 00:18:10,350
and so boom the articles started the

419
00:18:14,780 --> 00:18:13,020
process and within about six weeks we

420
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:14,790
got the New York Times article out which

421
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:16,010
is today

422
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:18,890
now and people are flooding my social

423
00:18:23,410 --> 00:18:21,650
media and I'm it's it's been wonderful

424
00:18:26,770 --> 00:18:23,420
the comments people are saying about

425
00:18:30,340 --> 00:18:26,780
time you know finally you know it's been

426
00:18:32,260 --> 00:18:30,350
great so to the nub of what we're saying

427
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:32,270
here folks is that there are people out

428
00:18:36,790 --> 00:18:34,570
there purporting to be psychic getting

429
00:18:39,790 --> 00:18:36,800
information from the mystical realms

430
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:39,800
where it's pretty clear pretty obvious

431
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:41,930
and with evidence to back it up they're

432
00:18:48,010 --> 00:18:44,450
getting their mystical insights from the

433
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:48,020
Internet realm mm-hmm I don't think it's

434
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:49,730
this common as we think is it's really

435
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:52,400
hard to catch somebody doing that but I

436
00:18:57,820 --> 00:18:55,610
think that it's it is happening you know

437
00:18:59,470 --> 00:18:57,830
so I think that we you know there's not

438
00:19:01,450 --> 00:18:59,480
much you can do about it to be honest

439
00:19:03,310 --> 00:19:01,460
with you there's you can't close down

440
00:19:06,370 --> 00:19:03,320
your Facebook page your social media

441
00:19:08,650 --> 00:19:06,380
page that tightly that they couldn't get

442
00:19:10,090 --> 00:19:08,660
this information I promise you because

443
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:10,100
they can get it from your your brother

444
00:19:15,220 --> 00:19:12,290
your your mom or whoever's on your

445
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:15,230
Facebook page who who links to something

446
00:19:20,500 --> 00:19:18,530
and it's not we shouldn't hide from

447
00:19:22,300 --> 00:19:20,510
social media the thing is is that you

448
00:19:24,940 --> 00:19:22,310
should just be aware when somebody's

449
00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:24,950
saying something and you say there's no

450
00:19:30,250 --> 00:19:27,710
way they could have known that oh yeah

451
00:19:32,050 --> 00:19:30,260
there's hundreds if not a thousand ways

452
00:19:33,610 --> 00:19:32,060
they could know that I'm telling you

453
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:33,620
that if they want to find out something

454
00:19:38,020 --> 00:19:35,930
they can find out something and if you

455
00:19:39,850 --> 00:19:38,030
aren't a good mark they're gonna move to

456
00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:39,860
the next person next to you it's not

457
00:19:46,300 --> 00:19:43,760
hard so the way to handle this is to I'm

458
00:19:49,210 --> 00:19:46,310
not really so much into educating the

459
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:49,220
population I'm more interested in making

460
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:51,170
sure this psychic is really

461
00:19:56,010 --> 00:19:53,690
uncomfortable and that the the people

462
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:56,020
who want to hire him for another TV show

463
00:20:01,600 --> 00:19:59,360
understand this guy has been busted big

464
00:20:04,450 --> 00:20:01,610
time and when they do a Google search or

465
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:04,460
find his Wikipedia page which is right

466
00:20:08,140 --> 00:20:06,170
there for everybody to find they're

467
00:20:10,090 --> 00:20:08,150
gonna go oh maybe we don't want to work

468
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:10,100
with this person well maybe this isn't

469
00:20:14,910 --> 00:20:11,930
such a good idea it's not entertainment

470
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:14,920
it's not fun this is not something that

471
00:20:21,370 --> 00:20:16,490
we should just

472
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:21,380
snidely say well you know whatever no no

473
00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:23,690
we this this kind of stuff really pisses

474
00:20:28,419 --> 00:20:26,510
me off and so that's why I do it

475
00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:28,429
and just quickly mentioning of course

476
00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:31,280
you talked about michelle in humpty dude

477
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:33,049
that's of course michelle Franklin who

478
00:20:37,659 --> 00:20:35,090
is one of the reporters right here on

479
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:37,669
the skeptic zone absolutely she was a

480
00:20:45,789 --> 00:20:41,600
great help and also Stewart Jones yes

481
00:20:48,430 --> 00:20:45,799
yes he is he was a big help and we had

482
00:20:50,380 --> 00:20:48,440
somebody Daniel from New Zealand and

483
00:20:52,270 --> 00:20:50,390
lots of other people and they were

484
00:20:53,980 --> 00:20:52,280
located all over the world I just put up

485
00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:53,990
a post on Facebook and I said hey I'm

486
00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:55,910
gonna do a psychic sting I can't tell

487
00:20:58,930 --> 00:20:56,720
you who it's gonna be

488
00:21:01,180 --> 00:20:58,940
it's gonna be about two weeks worth of

489
00:21:03,039 --> 00:21:01,190
work you're only going to be managing

490
00:21:05,919 --> 00:21:03,049
Facebook pages it doesn't gonna cost you

491
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:05,929
anything and it may or may not work do

492
00:21:09,820 --> 00:21:07,370
you want to come into the group or not

493
00:21:11,919 --> 00:21:09,830
and people like me me me me me me me me

494
00:21:14,409 --> 00:21:11,929
and I got to about twelve people I said

495
00:21:16,270 --> 00:21:14,419
okay that's it you know we're done and

496
00:21:17,980 --> 00:21:16,280
so that's how I put together these

497
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:17,990
stings and things you kind of have to be

498
00:21:22,270 --> 00:21:19,730
paying attention I'm not gonna go to

499
00:21:25,030 --> 00:21:22,280
people and say hey you over there I want

500
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:25,040
you to be on my team I'm not I'm looking

501
00:21:28,299 --> 00:21:26,570
for people who were just kind of hanging

502
00:21:29,950 --> 00:21:28,309
out and saying you know I'd like to do

503
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:29,960
something oh look Susan just put up a

504
00:21:34,659 --> 00:21:32,240
post she needs somebody help I'm on it

505
00:21:36,190 --> 00:21:34,669
you know we don't want even flaking out

506
00:21:38,890 --> 00:21:36,200
on me I want people who are serious here

507
00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:38,900
gonna help apart from the article in The

508
00:21:44,110 --> 00:21:40,370
New York Times of course there are other

509
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:44,120
articles including over at si si look

510
00:21:49,060 --> 00:21:45,970
folks I'm gonna link it to all those

511
00:21:51,659 --> 00:21:49,070
Susan take a breath have a drink

512
00:21:54,250 --> 00:21:51,669
pet the cat do whatever you have to do

513
00:21:57,250 --> 00:21:54,260
it's you're really making the headlines

514
00:21:58,120 --> 00:21:57,260
at the moment I hope next month when I'm

515
00:22:00,340 --> 00:21:58,130
in California

516
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:00,350
somehow i hook or by crook i we can

517
00:22:05,620 --> 00:22:02,570
catch up that would be great I know

518
00:22:08,830 --> 00:22:05,630
you're gonna be speaking on Pi Day March

519
00:22:10,390 --> 00:22:08,840
14 I am yes out there in Berkeley and I

520
00:22:12,940 --> 00:22:10,400
would I would be there in a heartbeat

521
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:12,950
but in Monterey County with the Monterey

522
00:22:17,260 --> 00:22:14,570
County skeptics we're also having her

523
00:22:19,570 --> 00:22:17,270
own Pi Day with a with a lecture and

524
00:22:22,780 --> 00:22:19,580
we're gonna have a bunch of Pi so I

525
00:22:24,610 --> 00:22:22,790
think mine's gonna be more fun it might

526
00:22:27,159 --> 00:22:24,620
it might be I might have to bring my

527
00:22:28,659 --> 00:22:27,169
talk down to Monterey before long yeah I

528
00:22:31,539 --> 00:22:28,669
would love to have you down here that

529
00:22:34,510 --> 00:22:31,549
would be fabulous but Pi Day is kind of

530
00:22:35,980 --> 00:22:34,520
reserved for eating pie and we're

531
00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:35,990
inviting we're gonna have it at a local

532
00:22:42,220 --> 00:22:38,000
library and try to really get the

533
00:22:45,250 --> 00:22:42,230
the local library patron to come in and

534
00:22:48,550 --> 00:22:45,260
learn about science and eating pie and

535
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:48,560
how much fun as you know skeptics are

536
00:22:52,810 --> 00:22:50,330
you know find out that we're not that

537
00:22:55,540 --> 00:22:52,820
criminally no fun kind of person we're

538
00:22:58,930 --> 00:22:55,550
gonna be a blast I certainly hope so

539
00:23:01,870 --> 00:22:58,940
well but for now again take a breath

540
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:01,880
susan gerbic thank you very much thank

541
00:23:29,460 --> 00:23:03,930
you everyone

542
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:34,270
camilo [\h__\h] olace less habla Paola the

543
00:23:38,380 --> 00:23:35,690
de l'air Moses with other Buenos Aires

544
00:23:40,270 --> 00:23:38,390
in Argentina when the couch ammos

545
00:23:42,370 --> 00:23:40,280
podcasts a couch a moonless mimic a

546
00:23:45,010 --> 00:23:42,380
couch a todo el mundo como the skeptic

547
00:23:47,620 --> 00:23:45,020
zone ojala pueden venir a visit Ana's

548
00:23:50,290 --> 00:23:47,630
algun dia hace para makan Westra Ricky

549
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:50,300
Sima comida localize yeah podemos hablar

550
00:23:59,140 --> 00:23:57,200
un tango mientras tanto sugandha fruit

551
00:24:07,810 --> 00:23:59,150
and OD pseudo see Simonelli ciencia de

552
00:24:07,820 --> 00:24:20,350
[Music]

553
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:24,770
and now we continue our series of

554
00:24:29,630 --> 00:24:27,120
articles reports interviews items from

555
00:24:34,970 --> 00:24:29,640
the skeptic the Journal of Australian

556
00:24:41,270 --> 00:24:34,980
skeptics we turn to autumn 1995 volume

557
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:41,280
15 number 1 on page 41 under the title

558
00:24:52,580 --> 00:24:47,370
of alternative therapy homeo pathetic by

559
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:52,590
Jim Delta recently I had occasion to

560
00:24:57,620 --> 00:24:54,720
call at local medical clinic for

561
00:25:00,260 --> 00:24:57,630
immunization against hepatitis B while

562
00:25:03,140 --> 00:25:00,270
waiting I browsed the many free leaflets

563
00:25:05,919 --> 00:25:03,150
on the waiting room table I was

564
00:25:09,250 --> 00:25:05,929
disturbed to find a pamphlet entitled

565
00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:09,260
homeopathy the quiet achiever of

566
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:12,510
hiv/aids treatment the extravagant

567
00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:14,850
claims of the feature article so

568
00:25:19,539 --> 00:25:17,520
confidently elucidated sent me wondering

569
00:25:22,610 --> 00:25:19,549
as to the value of my impending

570
00:25:25,460 --> 00:25:22,620
immunization I made my concerns clear to

571
00:25:28,610 --> 00:25:25,470
the administrating doctor who rolled her

572
00:25:30,770 --> 00:25:28,620
eyes in exasperation she expressed her

573
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:30,780
own concerns at the existence of such

574
00:25:36,710 --> 00:25:33,690
medical sabotage and the difficulty it

575
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:36,720
causes her profession she had no say in

576
00:25:42,460 --> 00:25:39,410
policy on such material being available

577
00:25:46,010 --> 00:25:42,470
much of it is delivered by outside

578
00:25:48,799 --> 00:25:46,020
support groups for hiv-positive patrons

579
00:25:50,620 --> 00:25:48,809
the fact that such material is tolerated

580
00:25:52,850 --> 00:25:50,630
by a legitimate medical clinic

581
00:25:56,630 --> 00:25:52,860
demonstrates the inroads that this

582
00:25:59,500 --> 00:25:56,640
magical medical mythology has made into

583
00:26:02,150 --> 00:25:59,510
respectable medical institutions

584
00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:02,160
fortunately only legitimate medical

585
00:26:06,169 --> 00:26:03,710
treatment was available at the clinic

586
00:26:09,470 --> 00:26:06,179
provided by properly qualified medical

587
00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:09,480
people most disturbing however is that

588
00:26:14,750 --> 00:26:11,910
this particular clinic is a major centre

589
00:26:17,510 --> 00:26:14,760
treatment for HIV positive cases in the

590
00:26:20,330 --> 00:26:17,520
region the dangers of this poppycock are

591
00:26:22,669 --> 00:26:20,340
very real one can imagine seriously ill

592
00:26:25,460 --> 00:26:22,679
people forgoing crucial medical

593
00:26:29,690 --> 00:26:25,470
treatment due to the influence of such

594
00:26:32,149 --> 00:26:29,700
drivel some exerts follow in

595
00:26:34,100 --> 00:26:32,159
referencing the early 1800s do you do

596
00:26:36,409 --> 00:26:34,110
its dramatic effectiveness against many

597
00:26:39,649 --> 00:26:36,419
of the serious epidemic illnesses of the

598
00:26:41,930 --> 00:26:39,659
time such as cholera typhoid and scarlet

599
00:26:44,210 --> 00:26:41,940
fever regarding a cholera outbreak in

600
00:26:47,450 --> 00:26:44,220
London the death rate of those treated

601
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:47,460
by Orthodox doctors was around 52% those

602
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:50,159
treated by homeopaths had a 13% death

603
00:26:56,509 --> 00:26:53,330
rate for an american cholera epidemic

604
00:27:01,899 --> 00:26:56,519
treated by orthodox doctors had a death

605
00:27:05,029 --> 00:27:01,909
braid are between 48 and 60% only 3% of

606
00:27:08,210 --> 00:27:05,039
1116 patients under homeopathic care

607
00:27:10,039 --> 00:27:08,220
died this compares favorably with modern

608
00:27:12,350 --> 00:27:10,049
medical treatment of cholera

609
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:12,360
the text is littered with more equally

610
00:27:18,110 --> 00:27:15,120
extravagant claims and there is the

611
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:18,120
usual allusion to conspiracies to

612
00:27:24,230 --> 00:27:21,690
conceal the truth about homeopathy if

613
00:27:26,060 --> 00:27:24,240
homeopathy was as effective as claimed

614
00:27:28,700 --> 00:27:26,070
in clinical trials would have

615
00:27:31,009 --> 00:27:28,710
established it resoundingly and doctors

616
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:31,019
would have to accept it eglee it's

617
00:27:35,690 --> 00:27:33,210
dramatic success would have caused the

618
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:35,700
homeopathic led extinctions of many

619
00:27:41,690 --> 00:27:37,730
infectious diseases such as smallpox

620
00:27:43,730 --> 00:27:41,700
long before devious modern medical

621
00:27:46,730 --> 00:27:43,740
practices had a chance

622
00:27:49,519 --> 00:27:46,740
modern medicine now has polio on the

623
00:27:52,490 --> 00:27:49,529
verge of extinction homeopathy has made

624
00:27:54,259 --> 00:27:52,500
no contribution to this finally some of

625
00:27:55,850 --> 00:27:54,269
the references accompanying the text

626
00:27:58,430 --> 00:27:55,860
presumably the source of these

627
00:28:03,220 --> 00:27:58,440
statistics regarding the effectiveness

628
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:03,230
of homeopathy were dated 1900 1866 and

629
00:28:09,710 --> 00:28:07,200
1890 to maybe their great antiquity in

630
00:28:12,889 --> 00:28:09,720
boozed them with credibility and the

631
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:12,899
homeopathy with credulity after all if

632
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:16,320
it's old it must be good the truth of

633
00:28:21,879 --> 00:28:18,570
homeopathy is of course that it has been

634
00:28:25,250 --> 00:28:21,889
found to be ineffective considering its

635
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:25,260
170 so years of existence it has not

636
00:28:30,769 --> 00:28:28,250
been able to effectively immunize anyone

637
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:30,779
modern immunization on the other hand

638
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:33,360
has produced dramatic results as the

639
00:28:38,619 --> 00:28:36,510
following figures testify figures for

640
00:28:43,410 --> 00:28:38,629
infectious diseases in the United States

641
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:43,420
disease measles date 1917

642
00:28:47,820 --> 00:28:45,370
five hundred and twenty seven thousand

643
00:28:55,220 --> 00:28:47,830
one hundred and thirty six post

644
00:29:00,420 --> 00:28:55,230
immunization cases 1987 3655 and if we

645
00:29:02,940 --> 00:29:00,430
leave the text for a moment I understand

646
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:02,950
that there has been a recent resurgence

647
00:29:07,650 --> 00:29:06,490
in measles thanks largely to the

648
00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:07,660
anti-vaxxer

649
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:10,510
and I think this is in various places

650
00:29:17,490 --> 00:29:13,210
around the world back to the article

651
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:17,500
disease whooping cough in 1927 one

652
00:29:22,010 --> 00:29:19,090
hundred and eighty one thousand four

653
00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:22,020
hundred eleven cases post immunization

654
00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:28,960
1987 2823 the list goes on with results

655
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:32,110
for diphtheria particularly striking in

656
00:29:37,260 --> 00:29:35,050
1927 we had one hundred and six thousand

657
00:29:40,460 --> 00:29:37,270
nine hundred and twenty four and then

658
00:29:43,290 --> 00:29:40,470
post immunization we have three and

659
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:43,300
polio I guess is probably the most

660
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:46,570
traumatic in 1947 ten thousand eight

661
00:29:50,580 --> 00:29:48,640
hundred and forty seven cases post

662
00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:50,590
immunization in nineteen eighty seven

663
00:29:57,300 --> 00:29:54,310
nil in Australia the improvement ratio

664
00:29:59,280 --> 00:29:57,310
is similar in recent years UNICEF and

665
00:30:01,470 --> 00:29:59,290
the World Health Organization estimate

666
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:01,480
that 1 million three hundred thousand

667
00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:03,730
deaths from vaccine preventable diseases

668
00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:06,430
have been averted by their immunization

669
00:30:11,220 --> 00:30:08,910
program but there's a long way to go

670
00:30:13,050 --> 00:30:11,230
homeopaths claim that some modern

671
00:30:16,860 --> 00:30:13,060
medical practices are based on the

672
00:30:19,710 --> 00:30:16,870
homeopathic rule of similars for example

673
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:19,720
like will cure like they cite as an

674
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:21,850
example the vaccination against smallpox

675
00:30:28,190 --> 00:30:25,690
with cow pox however cow pox does not

676
00:30:31,050 --> 00:30:28,200
cause the same symptoms as smallpox

677
00:30:34,590 --> 00:30:31,060
vaccination against smallpox with cow

678
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:34,600
pox was used because of the observation

679
00:30:40,230 --> 00:30:36,880
that milkmaids who had been infected

680
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:40,240
with cow pox did not contract smallpox

681
00:30:46,620 --> 00:30:43,690
Hahnemann who invented homeopathy noted

682
00:30:49,410 --> 00:30:46,630
that Quinn teen produced in himself the

683
00:30:52,590 --> 00:30:49,420
symptoms of malaria and concluded that

684
00:30:54,690 --> 00:30:52,600
like will be cured by and like in

685
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:54,700
practice the use of Quinn een is

686
00:30:58,900 --> 00:30:56,690
contrary to this principle

687
00:31:02,230 --> 00:30:58,910
for example if Hanuman was correct a

688
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:02,240
high potent eyes preparation from an

689
00:31:07,060 --> 00:31:04,370
initial Quinn example would treat

690
00:31:10,060 --> 00:31:07,070
malaria far better than the ridiculously

691
00:31:12,210 --> 00:31:10,070
low potency are we perfectly speaking of

692
00:31:14,770 --> 00:31:12,220
a concentrated dose of Quinn in

693
00:31:16,780 --> 00:31:14,780
homeopaths do not typically use a small

694
00:31:20,550 --> 00:31:16,790
dose of a substance by their own

695
00:31:23,860 --> 00:31:20,560
admission they use a non-existent dose

696
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:23,870
even so Dana Ullman the author of

697
00:31:29,140 --> 00:31:25,730
homeopathic medicine for children and

698
00:31:32,050 --> 00:31:29,150
infants seems unable to be reconciled

699
00:31:34,780 --> 00:31:32,060
with this and persists in referring to

700
00:31:37,330 --> 00:31:34,790
this extremely small dose he charges

701
00:31:39,580 --> 00:31:37,340
that most skeptics are so unfamiliar

702
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:39,590
with homeopathy that they cannot even

703
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:42,770
describe the basic principles and they

704
00:31:47,740 --> 00:31:44,530
object to it on the basis of the

705
00:31:49,390 --> 00:31:47,750
extremely small doses not only is almond

706
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:49,400
apparently unfamiliar with the major

707
00:31:54,130 --> 00:31:52,130
objections of the skeptics but he seems

708
00:31:57,010 --> 00:31:54,140
embarrassed by the fundamental

709
00:32:00,400 --> 00:31:57,020
homeopathic principle mystical energy

710
00:32:03,430 --> 00:32:00,410
transfer firstly the objection of

711
00:32:06,420 --> 00:32:03,440
skeptics is not just the quote extremely

712
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:06,430
small doses and quote but because of

713
00:32:11,890 --> 00:32:09,410
non-existent doses it is admitted by

714
00:32:14,350 --> 00:32:11,900
homeopaths that not even one molecule of

715
00:32:17,890 --> 00:32:14,360
the original substance remains in the

716
00:32:20,550 --> 00:32:17,900
typical homeopathic medicine secondly

717
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:20,560
omen seems loathed to mention the

718
00:32:25,810 --> 00:32:23,120
principle by which homeopathy has

719
00:32:28,330 --> 00:32:25,820
traditionally been claimed to work the

720
00:32:31,060 --> 00:32:28,340
idea that some mystical energy unknown

721
00:32:33,910 --> 00:32:31,070
to science purported to be transferred

722
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:33,920
from delusion to delusion by shaking on

723
00:32:40,150 --> 00:32:37,490
pages 7 to 9 he manages to explain the

724
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:40,160
making of homeopathic preparation potent

725
00:32:45,820 --> 00:32:43,490
ization the delusion out of existence of

726
00:32:48,130 --> 00:32:45,830
the active ingredient and the alleged

727
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:48,140
increase in potency with each delusion

728
00:32:53,530 --> 00:32:50,720
without once mentioning this mystical

729
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:53,540
energy transfer a fundamental principle

730
00:32:59,530 --> 00:32:56,570
of homeopathy and one which skeptics

731
00:33:01,590 --> 00:32:59,540
object to one gets the distinct

732
00:33:05,140 --> 00:33:01,600
impression that he would rather avoid

733
00:33:06,910 --> 00:33:05,150
mentioning it woman attempts to support

734
00:33:09,730 --> 00:33:06,920
his argument with references to the

735
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:09,740
ability of sharks to detect extremely

736
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:10,610
small

737
00:33:15,820 --> 00:33:12,559
concentrations of blood in the water and

738
00:33:18,390 --> 00:33:15,830
the ability of moths to detect only a

739
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:18,400
few molecules of a pheromone in the air

740
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:21,290
however the molecules have to be present

741
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:23,570
in order to be detected and it takes

742
00:33:28,510 --> 00:33:25,970
highly specialized receptors to detect

743
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:28,520
them nor has the surrounding water been

744
00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:32,090
potent eyes a very precise farm logical

745
00:33:37,780 --> 00:33:35,510
process according to homeopaths the fact

746
00:33:41,049 --> 00:33:37,790
that it is not known why certain modern

747
00:33:43,180 --> 00:33:41,059
drugs work does not give credence to the

748
00:33:46,270 --> 00:33:43,190
homeopathic cause as omen would have us

749
00:33:48,669 --> 00:33:46,280
believe that they do work can be

750
00:33:50,470 --> 00:33:48,679
verified in rigorous clinical trials

751
00:33:53,620 --> 00:33:50,480
something that cannot be done for

752
00:33:55,930 --> 00:33:53,630
homeopathy if homeopathy worked then an

753
00:33:58,930 --> 00:33:55,940
effective alternative cure for scurvy

754
00:34:00,820 --> 00:33:58,940
would be a potent Thais preparation

755
00:34:04,539 --> 00:34:00,830
delivered from a substance that produces

756
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:04,549
the symptoms of scurvy of course the

757
00:34:09,250 --> 00:34:06,970
proper cure for scurvy is vitamin C

758
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:09,260
preferably by eating fresh fruit and

759
00:34:14,109 --> 00:34:11,090
vegetables what is particularly

760
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:14,119
disturbing about almonds book is that it

761
00:34:20,590 --> 00:34:17,770
is marketed as medicine for children

762
00:34:22,510 --> 00:34:20,600
while it does occasionally direct the

763
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:22,520
reader to seek modern medical attention

764
00:34:30,099 --> 00:34:25,810
for serious diseases and illnesses it

765
00:34:32,590 --> 00:34:30,109
consistently undermines this advice best

766
00:34:34,510 --> 00:34:32,600
illustrated by example asthma is a

767
00:34:36,849 --> 00:34:34,520
potentially serious and even

768
00:34:38,590 --> 00:34:36,859
life-threatening condition infants and

769
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:38,600
children with asthma should receive

770
00:34:42,310 --> 00:34:39,530
medical attention

771
00:34:43,869 --> 00:34:42,320
be aware that conventional drugs used

772
00:34:46,899 --> 00:34:43,879
for treating asthma particularly

773
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:46,909
steroids can impair immune function and

774
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:49,850
lead to more serious health problems the

775
00:34:55,300 --> 00:34:52,010
following remedies can reduce the

776
00:34:58,210 --> 00:34:55,310
distress that an acute attack can create

777
00:35:00,730 --> 00:34:58,220
but homeopathic constitutional care is

778
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:00,740
necessary to achieve a lasting cure the

779
00:35:06,010 --> 00:35:02,210
constant use throughout the book of

780
00:35:08,260 --> 00:35:06,020
words like remedy and cure in relation

781
00:35:10,359 --> 00:35:08,270
to serious diseases including some with

782
00:35:12,250 --> 00:35:10,369
no known cure is a dangerous line

783
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:12,260
children who are denied proper

784
00:35:17,859 --> 00:35:14,690
medication for asthma are having their

785
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:17,869
lives placed in jeopardy modern medicine

786
00:35:22,180 --> 00:35:20,000
is criticized when it uses animals on

787
00:35:24,530 --> 00:35:22,190
which to test new medicines and

788
00:35:26,030 --> 00:35:24,540
techniques the alternative

789
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:26,040
Edinson community has solved this

790
00:35:31,970 --> 00:35:29,210
problem they used their own children a

791
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:31,980
curious thing caught my eye on the verso

792
00:35:38,330 --> 00:35:35,370
of the title page they're arrogantly

793
00:35:40,670 --> 00:35:38,340
displayed in bold type other words the

794
00:35:44,090 --> 00:35:40,680
moral right of the author has been

795
00:35:50,270 --> 00:35:44,100
asserted obviously this is alternative

796
00:35:53,570 --> 00:35:50,280
morality and that was Hermia pathetic by

797
00:35:56,270 --> 00:35:53,580
Jim Carter published in volume fifteen

798
00:35:58,490 --> 00:35:56,280
number one of the skeptic magazine the

799
00:36:00,740 --> 00:35:58,500
journal from Australian skeptics one of

800
00:36:01,970 --> 00:36:00,750
the thousands of articles items reports

801
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:01,980
and interviews available at your

802
00:36:09,340 --> 00:36:06,480
fingertips by visiting WWF Descamps

803
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:09,350
today you

804
00:36:20,949 --> 00:36:19,179
calling all skeptics or listeners do you

805
00:36:23,679 --> 00:36:20,959
live in or near Glasgow

806
00:36:25,689 --> 00:36:23,689
are you planning to visit something then

807
00:36:27,789 --> 00:36:25,699
you're in luck because the Glasgow

808
00:36:30,789 --> 00:36:27,799
skeptics have got your Monday nights

809
00:36:33,189 --> 00:36:30,799
sorted we are committed to filling up

810
00:36:35,829 --> 00:36:33,199
every available Monday night talks on

811
00:36:38,019 --> 00:36:35,839
science and skepticism past speakers

812
00:36:39,789 --> 00:36:38,029
include Eugenie Scott Jerry Coyne

813
00:36:41,829 --> 00:36:39,799
Michael Marshall Nate Phelps

814
00:36:45,759 --> 00:36:41,839
tormund Cecil from cognitive dissonance

815
00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:45,769
PZ Myers Richard Wiseman EC drilling nor

816
00:36:50,409 --> 00:36:47,839
Heath and Eli from the scathing atheist

817
00:36:52,659 --> 00:36:50,419
Simon Singh Rebecca Watson and a

818
00:36:55,059 --> 00:36:52,669
multitude of local academics and

819
00:36:57,130 --> 00:36:55,069
sceptics there's literally nothing

820
00:36:57,849 --> 00:36:57,140
better you can do on a Monday night in

821
00:36:59,650 --> 00:36:57,859
Glasgow

822
00:37:02,589 --> 00:36:59,660
it doesn't involve taking your clothes

823
00:37:04,839 --> 00:37:02,599
off so come join us we've also got a

824
00:37:07,150 --> 00:37:04,849
vibrant online community you can find us

825
00:37:09,459 --> 00:37:07,160
on Facebook Twitter and get involved

826
00:37:14,910 --> 00:37:09,469
with the discussion Glasgow skeptics

827
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:25,920
[Music]

828
00:37:29,289 --> 00:37:28,479
thank you for listening a skip exam get

829
00:37:32,019 --> 00:37:29,299
better soon

830
00:37:34,749 --> 00:37:32,029
Saunders now if you are in Sydney on the

831
00:37:37,779 --> 00:37:34,759
16th of March come along to my gig

832
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:37,789
maina's Love Shack that's at 36 glib

833
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:40,130
foot road in Sydney only ten bucks from

834
00:37:44,289 --> 00:37:42,650
eight till four upstairs at the red bar

835
00:37:46,539 --> 00:37:44,299
there we'll be doing all sorts of groove

836
00:37:49,689 --> 00:37:46,549
all night on 16th of March of interested

837
00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:49,699
to see how skeptics can dance or if they

838
00:37:54,130 --> 00:37:52,400
can I'm skeptical about skeptics dancing

839
00:37:56,170 --> 00:37:54,140
that's Mainers Love Shack and there's a

840
00:37:57,519 --> 00:37:56,180
link to it in the show notes here and if

841
00:37:59,349 --> 00:37:57,529
you're in Canberra why not go along to

842
00:38:02,920 --> 00:37:59,359
new talk hosted by the local skeptics

843
00:38:06,009 --> 00:38:02,930
they're talking plane about gmos that's

844
00:38:08,709 --> 00:38:06,019
on Tuesday the 12th of March from 6 to

845
00:38:10,839 --> 00:38:08,719
7:30 it's at the Belk : community

846
00:38:12,999 --> 00:38:10,849
service center and it's free that's a

847
00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:13,009
12th of March 6 o'clock with the camera

848
00:38:18,910 --> 00:38:15,920
skeptics link in this week's show Nats

849
00:38:20,380 --> 00:38:18,920
and finally Richard Saunders himself

850
00:38:22,569 --> 00:38:20,390
will be giving it to big it's a big one

851
00:38:24,759 --> 00:38:22,579
this Thursday night is a big one clear

852
00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:24,769
your calendars anybody in Sydney that's

853
00:38:27,729 --> 00:38:26,089
right Richard Saunders will be giving a

854
00:38:29,589 --> 00:38:27,739
talk about psychic detectives it's

855
00:38:32,229 --> 00:38:29,599
Thursday night at Sydney skeptics in the

856
00:38:35,949 --> 00:38:32,239
pub or maybe he'll be giving a croak or

857
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:35,959
something or maybe he'll just be making

858
00:38:50,420 --> 00:38:45,500
that's a noisy audience we're making I

859
00:38:52,250 --> 00:38:50,430
think he'll be making this noise he's

860
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:52,260
such a drinker that's this Thursday

861
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:54,090
night Cindy skeptics in the pub all

862
00:38:58,400 --> 00:38:56,640
about psychic detectives with Richard

863
00:39:00,620 --> 00:38:58,410
Saunders so go there or just be

864
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:00,630
somewhere else as I like to say skeptic

865
00:39:08,980 --> 00:39:04,530
up skeptic down skeptic out of town see

866
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:11,510
you've been listening to the skeptic

867
00:39:20,180 --> 00:39:15,200
zone podcast please visit our website at

868
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:20,190
WWDC be for show notes contacts and to

869
00:39:26,630 --> 00:39:23,010
access the bat catalog of episodes going

870
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:26,640
back to 2008 you can follow the skeptic

871
00:39:32,180 --> 00:39:29,450
zone podcast on twitter at skeptic zone

872
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:32,190
visit our facebook page or leave a

873
00:39:38,570 --> 00:39:35,610
review on itunes you can also support

874
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:38,580
the skeptic zone via patreon or PayPal

875
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:41,010
the skeptic zone podcast is an

876
00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:43,680
independent production reviews and

877
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:45,510
opinions expressed on the skeptic zone

878
00:39:50,300 --> 00:39:47,760
are not necessarily those of Australian

879
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:50,310
skeptics or any other sceptical

880
00:39:54,750 --> 00:39:51,170
organisation

881
00:40:02,720 --> 00:39:54,760
[Music]

882
00:40:09,630 --> 00:40:02,730
oh then what what what a great effort

883
00:40:12,060 --> 00:40:09,640
thank you thank you thank you it really